Sunday, April 06, 2008

The Jewish-Frum Factor

When talking real estate values/prices in New York City, how can one leave out the Jewish-Frum Factor?

I just read through this three page NY Times article, which even mentions rather peculiar variations in property values and never mentions Orthodox Jews, synagogues, etc.

"Queens may be the most difficult market to explain, because prices can vary by neighborhood and even by block... Brokers also say that there may be no rhyme or reason to prices in Queens, or even to what type of house will sell."

It may not be much of a mystery. In most parts of the Jewish world homes considered an "easy walk" to an Orthodox synagogue are sold for more money than identical houses a few blocks away, or those separated by a dangerous thoroughfare or difficult topography.

Are there any bloggers out there who can confirm this? How are the real estate values in the areas of Orthodox shuls vs similar homes further away?

19 comments:

Jack Steiner said...

In my neck of the woods in L.A. there is a definite bump in prices relative to proximity to shul.

Dan said...

same in montreal

Batya said...

Thanks
That's what I thought. It seems like the article was written with a goyishe kup. The name of the author doesn't sound Jewish, though with intermarriage one never knows.

Does anyone know more about the writer?

Rafi G. said...

from my experience, a frum community means higher real estate prices, as more frum people want to be in that specific area, driving up prices. And proximity to the shul is, generaly but not always, goign to mean higher prices. I know in Lakewood the homes closer to the yeshiva are the most expensive.

YMedad said...

As my wife knows, economics and business aren't my speciality but I do recall my Professor at YU offering a grant for someone to do a PhD on the economic demands made of the Orthodox Jew: kosher food / utensils, Jewish education, clothes, religious articles, etc. that one needed to purchase that made one different from a secular Jew.

yitz said...

Having been b'Aretz almost 27 years now, I can't claim great expertise on NYC real estate. But having lived in Brooklyn & still in touch with friends there, there is a definite correlation of prices to proximity to Shuls, etc. Witness "Flatbush" which in my time was basically between Ocean Parkway & E. 16th St. [where the subway runs]. Younger couples kept moving further "out" to the E. 20s, 30s, etc. where the prices were lower, only to find that their "success" led to higher prices still. Rav Mordechai Dov Ber Twerski's Shul on East 29th St. [which in my day was "out of town"] is now one of the most growth-oriented Shuls in Flatbush, & that's just one example. I think you're right on target!

yitz said...

PS - and on the "other side" of Ocean Parkway, the whole area between Boro Park & Ocean Pkwy is now full of frum families as well [the East 1-6 Streets].
I imagine that the same applies to Queens & elsewhere...

Smooth said...

Many parts of Rockland County, NY are expensive to live in general, and even moreso for the frum community.

Batya said...

rafi, husband, yitz, smooth,

Thanks for your comments.

Now if it's so easy for us to see this, how come the NYT didn't see it?

I'm sure that the NYC real estate agents all know what we know.

Cosmic X said...

Even the "secular" neighborhoods in Jerusalem have Orthodox shuls! :)

Batya said...

Of course, and I'm sure that the property values are higher than if further away, unless a difficult "walk-up."

goyisherebbe said...

I just sent the following link to Catriel about Jewish real estate in Cleveland, a followup to the intra-Jewish conflict which occurred a number of years back as described in the book Jew vs. Jew. It was a February article in the Cleveland Jewish News.
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2008/02/28/features/business/bbus0229.txt

Batya said...

Thanks!!

Soccer Dad said...

I thought that would be the case in Baltimore, but this link shows that from 2006 to 2007 the areas with the highest concentrations of Orthodox Jews in Baltimore (21209 and 21215) showed no real increase. Of course that could just mean that the market had already reached its peak and it didn't have much room to increase.

Batya said...

Thanks sd, but have other areas gone down? Holding value while other areas have a decrease is the same as an increase, right?

yingerman said...

Economics 101
supply and demand
the yidelech are willing to pay crazy overinflated prices to live a ghetto
I tried moving to outskirts of the heavy BP areas after a while I gave up and now live where I hafta wait 15-20 minutes for parking spot

Batya said...

That's because your priorities in chosing a home doesn't include "what's best for the car." And you're not willing to move to a totally different place.

Anonymous said...

This factor is alive and well in Queens and the other boroughs. I still don't understand the appeal of the five boroughs, but that's just me.

In my own neighborhood, the price differences between homes close and far away from shul are incredible! The homes close to shul sell for significantly more than those much farther out.

You know things are kind of insane when people here in America feel that a house for $400k+ in Efrat is reasonable...

I know a young couple whose starter home in Chicago (a nice home, but not an very large home- kind of narrow, smallish lawn and yard, but nicely finished inside) cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $320k, give or take a bit. Now they're considering expanding (as in $100-200k expansion), since it doesn't make sense to move to another area..

Madness!

In my neighborhood, prices are crazy, but not as much as up north. A friend of mine paid more than double what we paid for our house, and his house is much smaller, doesn't have a pool, and they've put a lot of work into it since purchasing it. When we moved to our neighborhood, prices were very reasonable. We didn't really end up there on purpose, though.

::sigh::

such is life...

Batya said...

t, thanks for the detailed comments.
You've all confirmed that the article wasn't researched well at all. The author just spoke to a couple of ignoramouses.